Author Topic: Ramalan Watchtower (yang meleset lagi)  (Read 11644 times)

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December 19, 2011, 06:17:26 PM
Reply #50
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Sdr Bruce,

Kita harus bisa membedakan antara organisasi dan pribadi. Adalah wajar jika sebuah organisasi yang merasa memiliki kebenaran (dari sudut pandangnya) menilai organisasi lain sebagai pihak yang keliru. Sama seperti Gereja Katolik dan Gereja-Gereja Protestan juga menilai Watchtower keliru. Tetapi seperti yang YESUS ajarkan, kita tidak boleh menghakimi pribadinya.

Terima kasih.

Tapi, perkataan yang mengatakan bahwa agama lain di luar ssy, yang diistilahkan agama dunia dan termasuk diantaranya adalah Katolik, Protestan, Buddha, Hindu, Islam, adalah babel/pelacur besar, betul kan seperti itu ucapan WT ?

 :wink:
Menghujat sangat mudah, terlebih lagi jika tanpa bukti.
Melakukan sebaik seperti yang dihujat, jauh lebih sulit.
December 19, 2011, 06:23:41 PM
Reply #51
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Thanks brur sanc

Sedikit lagi masalah ini :

Jadi berapa jam yang dianggap sewajarnya bagi suami istri penganut ssy untuk mengabar dalam seminggu ?

Thanks jika anda bersedia menjawab.

Sdr Bruce,
Seperti saya katakan, itu sesuai kemampuan dan keadaan. Bahkan yang sudah berkeluarga juga berbeda, mungkin karena hal-hal seperti: jumlah anak yang harus dididik, orang tua yang harus diurus, perekonomian keluarga, dll (saya tidak mungkin merinci semuanya. Ini hanya beberapa contoh).

Terima kasih.
"Jeova Sanctus Unus"

"Jeova tu Solus Altissimus in Omni Terra"

"Veritas Liberabit Vos"
December 19, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Reply #52
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Tapi, perkataan yang mengatakan bahwa agama lain di luar ssy, yang diistilahkan agama dunia dan termasuk diantaranya adalah Katolik, Protestan, Buddha, Hindu, Islam, adalah babel/pelacur besar, betul kan seperti itu ucapan WT ?

 :wink:

Sdr Bruce,

Saya pikir tulisan saya itu sudah cukup jelas.

Terima kasih.
"Jeova Sanctus Unus"

"Jeova tu Solus Altissimus in Omni Terra"

"Veritas Liberabit Vos"
December 19, 2011, 06:49:00 PM
Reply #53
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Thanks brur sanc

Sedikit lagi masalah ini :

Jadi berapa jam yang dianggap sewajarnya bagi suami istri penganut ssy untuk mengabar dalam seminggu ?

Thanks jika anda bersedia menjawab.
sdr bruce..
Izinkan saya menjelaskan pertanyaan sdr,
Kuantitas iman/perbuatan kita tidak dinilai dari seberapa byk yang bisa kita berikan.
Tapi dari apakah yang kita berikan itu sudah merupakan pemberian terbaik yang kita mampu.
Jam dan laporan merupakan tolak ukur bagi organisasi untuk kamajuan di seputar dunia. kalau tidak ada data bagaimana menyusun laporan yg akurat.
murid-murid yesus dan rasul paulus sendiri melakukan hal yg sama (mr 6:30 ; act 12:17)
Jadi sama seperti sumbangan sukarela berupa materi, pemberian bauh-buah bibir kita juga harus berdasar kerelaan memberi. Tidak ada angka tertentu sbg acuan, krn masing2 memiliki keadaan yg berbeda.
"Love does not work evil to one's neighbor" - romans 13 : 10
December 19, 2011, 06:55:18 PM
Reply #54
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@bruce
Trimakasih atas info sdr.
izinkan saya menanggapi kisah pribadi sdr tsb.
Dari apa yg selama ini saya pelajari ttg mereka. Ada satu pandangan yg menarik,
Bagi ssy tidak ada ungkapan 'sekali selamat tetap selamat' atau 'sekali ssy ttp ssy' tapi dia yang 'bertekun sampai akhir' yang akan diselamatkan.
Bagi mereka iman bukanlah sesuatu yg statis atau tetap. Tapi iman dapat berfluktuasi (naik/turun) sesuai byk dikitnya yg mereka timba dari alkitab. Mereka juga akrab dgn istilah 'lemah rohani' / 'mati rohani'/'sakit scr rohani' yg diparabelkan dgn tubuh jasmani. Kalau kita makan secara teratur dgn makan makanan yg sehat pastilah kita akan sehat secara rohani. Demikian pula scra rohani kalau kita mulai kehilangan selera makan rohani, byk mengkonsumsi makanan yg tidak sehat scra rohani, dan memang mau tidak mau kita merasakan polusi secara rohani dlm dunia yg bejat dewasa ini, lambat laun iman kita bisa terkikis, lemah, sakit, kemudian mati secara rohani.
Itulah sebabnya mereka slalu mendesak untuk bercermin scr rohani dmn cermin yg digunakan adalah alkitab(2 tim 3:16) dan tidak melalaikan pertemuan rohani krn akan ada pertukaran anjuran dan saling memperhatikan agar tidak jatuh (heb 10:24,25)
Mereka juga mengenal istilah apakah sdr ssy 100 % atau hanya setengah2 (bermuka dua), apakah sdr ssy 24 jam atau hanya di dpn rekan2 sesama saja.
Bagaimana jika ada yg melanggar ?
Akan dibentuk panitia pengadilan yg terdiri dari 3 penatua...fakta-fakta dikumpulkan dan saksi mata akan dipanggil. Mereka yg terbukti bersalah, akan di disiplin yg merupakan wujud kasih agar mereka mau menyadari kesalahan dan berubah haluan. Bagi yg ttp mempertahankan kebiasaan buruk mereka, maka akan ada pemecatan, tujuannya agar menjaga sidang jemaat tetap bersih (mat 18:15-17 ; 1 cor 6:9,10 ; 5:6 ; jas 5:14,15)
Dari penuturan sdr, saya bisa menyimpulkan bahwa teman saksi sdr tsb, tidak suci sehubungan dgn perkataan, yg mgkn terjadi krn mengkonsumsi makanan-makanan bejat dunia ini (bacaan, gambar, film porno) yang walaupun dia sembunyikan, cpt atau lambat akan disingkapkan ROH KUDUS kpd sidang jemaat, krn segala sesuatu adalah telanjang di mata ALLAH.
Dgn mendapatkan teguran, maka kasih Allah nyata agar dia ,merubah haluannya tsb. Jika dia tidak bertobat, maka pemecatan adalah langkah terakhir yg di ambil utk menjaga kebersihan sidang.
Maka perlu untuk selalu waspada agar hati yg fasik tdk berkembang dlm diri kita, dan selalu bercermin pada firman allah Alkitab. Malaikat saja bisa jatuh, apalagi manusia yg tidak sempurna, tapi dia yg bertekun sampai akhir, yang akan diselamatkan.
Mereka sangat ketat dlm menjaga kebersihan rohani di sidang, krn itu jika sdr melihat mreka melanggar, jgn ragu2 utk melaporkannya ke rekan Kristen ssy yg lain, dari apa yg saya amati...jika memang terbukti,100 % akan di disiplin tanpa pandang bulu.
Ttg buku, lektur, majalah & publikasi lain semua tidak dicantumkan label harga (silahkan cross cek dgn ssy yg lain),begitu ambil dari hamba majalah ya lgsg masukkin tas,krn tidak ada tarifnya, maka sumbangan yg sdr masukkan ke kotak sumbangan tergantung brp kerelaan sdr memberi.
Ttg bantuan kpd rekan-rekan Kristen, mreka sangat care satu sama lain, bahkan di sidang tempat saya ikut berhimpun, ada pengaturan untuk membantu para lansia yg sudah tdk mampu menafkahi hidupnya, krn tdk memiliki keluarga dan anak yg mampu menyokong hidupnya, maka dia diberi tempat tinggal dan kebutuhan sehari-hari,

Smoga informasi yg saya amati dari mereka bisa menjelaskan spt apa mereka sebenarnya.
Trims.

Brur Maonedez,

Terima kasih sudah memberi informasi yang berimbang. Saudara tidak hanya menunjukkan kebaikan, tetapi juga kesalahan yang mungkin terjadi pada seorang SSY, sehingga pembaca lain bisa menilai seperti apa sebenarnya SSY. Pengalaman saudara juga menarik.

Sekali lagi terima kasih.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 06:57:28 PM by The Sanctuary »
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"Veritas Liberabit Vos"
December 19, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
Reply #55
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kok jadi OOT........

apakah semua ramalan memang meleset atau gimana kesimpulannya?
December 19, 2011, 10:45:51 PM
Reply #56
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kok jadi OOT........

apakah semua ramalan memang meleset atau gimana kesimpulannya?

ya memang terpaksa di ou ou te kan, supaya lupa ( bahasa politisnya : "memang sengaja dikondisikan begitu"
yang saya heran TS nya lupa juga lalu terbawa arus ou ou te ..........wkwkwkw
Ketika hatiku merasa pahit dan buah pinggangku menusuk-nusuk rasanya,aku dungu dan tidak mengerti, seperti hewan aku di dekat-Mu.
( Mazmur 73:21-22 )
December 20, 2011, 01:15:44 AM
Reply #57
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ssy? kok bisa ya ramalan meleset melulu kok dipercaya??? Aneh...  :mad0261: :tongue:
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Non Nobis Domine, Non Nobis, Sed Nomini Tuo Da Gloriam

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi
December 20, 2011, 08:09:08 AM
Reply #58
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Quote
ya memang terpaksa di ou ou te kan, supaya lupa ( bahasa politisnya : "memang sengaja dikondisikan begitu"
yang saya heran TS nya lupa juga lalu terbawa arus ou ou te ..........wkwkwkw

Ngga lupa koq bro, cuma kalau dari mereka belum ada yang bersedia dan mampu menjawab, masa harus dipaksa?

:D
Menghujat sangat mudah, terlebih lagi jika tanpa bukti.
Melakukan sebaik seperti yang dihujat, jauh lebih sulit.
December 20, 2011, 09:02:28 AM
Reply #59
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Menjawab tuduhan tentang 'ramalan' Watchtower:

The Problem with "False Prophecy" Polemics

Suppose I had access to everything you had done or said since you were a little child, stored on a computer.  It would be a simple matter for me to pick out a hundred or two hundred of the worst things you’d said and done over the course of your life, to write them up in a list with dates, times and places and then to proclaim, in the same way as a correspondent did in one of his emails to me: “The question is not what you have got wrong, but whether you got anything right.”  On the other hand, by a similar process of selecting the 100-200 kindest, most generous, loving things you’d done, I could equally make you look like a saint.  Both pictures would be true in a sense, but neither would be the whole truth.  Why is this important?

In the last 125 years, Jehovah’s Witnesses have published literally millions of words in publications such as The Watchtower.  This includes powerful arguments against atheism and the theory of evolution, eloquent defences of the Bible as the inspired word of God, articles upholding the Bible’s stance on moral issues such as abortion, fornication, adultery and homosexual lifestyles.  Watchtower publications have long exhorted their readers to display Christian qualities and imitate JESUS.  They have shown how applying the Bible’s counsel can benefit family life.  Through  The Watchtower, millions of people have been comforted by the Bible’s message of hope.

You might expect that evangelical Christian organizations would happily applaud most of the above.  After all, evangelical Christians believe in God and reject evolution, consider the Bible to be God’s inspired word, oppose sexual sins and abortion.  They, too, speak of the need to imitate JESUS and display Christlike qualities.  You would expect, then, that evangelical Christian groups could find a lot of positive things to say about The Watchtower.  You’d think they’d congratulate Jehovah’s Witnesses for energetically spreading the above-mentioned views throughout the world and in literally hundreds of languages.  But you would be wildly wrong.

An analysis of quotations from The Watchtower and other Jehovah’s Witness publications made by evangelical Christian writers - particularly on the Internet, but also in print - reveals that, far from commending Witness literature for all the positive material they publish, these writers consistently attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and actively seek anything that could possibly be used to discredit them - including many things published more than 100 years ago!

You could compare their attitude with that of a man who visits one of the world’s most beautiful cities - say Vienna.  Instead of touring the most attractive parts of the city, though, this man visits the Municipal Garbage Dump and photographs the rubbish there.  Then he goes to the industrial area and photographs the factories.    Everywhere he goes he looks for the ugliest, most sordid parts of the city.  Making copious use of close-ups to highlight the least attractive parts and using the most unflattering camera angles, he ensures his pictures give the worst possible impression.  Then, on his return home, he shows the photographs to his friends, to convince them that Vienna is the most awful city in the world.

In resorting to similar tactics, critics of Witness publications immediately reveal their bias.  The Watchtower Society is their ideological opponent, to be defeated at all costs.  They comb through old Watchtowers, going back as far as 130 years.  They take whatever suits their purpose and ignore the rest.  They rip quotes out of their context, attempting to make it look as though they say much more than they actually meant.  Why do they do it?  They do it because it is their job to do it!  In short, they are far from being an objective source of information.

Frankly, few Jehovah's Witnesses are likely to be taken in by such chicanery.  It is easy to detect an agenda behind this type of mudslinging.  Just about anyone who wanted to believe it has already done so.  And as for the rest of us, what hasn't killed us has made us stronger.

But we should not reject a person’s criticism simply because we feel it is wrongly motivated.  Prejudiced and hate-filled people can sometimes be at least partially right.  As Christians, we should be discerning, remembering the admonition of the proverb, “anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word.”  (Proverbs 14:15)  With that in mind, let us examine the assertions commonly made in anti-Witness literature concerning the Witnesses’ alleged “false prophecies”.

Taken Out of Context
  We have not the gift of prophecy

Zion's Watch Tower, July 1883.
The standard technique of critics appears to be to present a list of alleged “false prophecies”, the  longer the better.  There are dozens of such lists on the Internet.  These take the form of quotations from The Watchtower and other Witness publications.

Whereas the majority of the quotes themselves are accurate, the context in which they were presented - both the immediate context of the printed page and the historical context - is omitted.  Selective quotations ensure that anything that gives the impression of certainty is usually included, whereas any cautionary statements are omitted.


We are not for a moment denying that the publications - in particular the earlier ones -  have at times published information that was speculative in nature and turned out to be mistaken.  But the fact is that, for each of the dates commonly touted by critics as ‘false prophecies’ (1874, 1914, 1925, 1975), Watch Tower publications had published cautionary statements to the effect that it was by no means certain what would happen.  Consider, for example, the following statements, which emphasise that the basis for the conclusions was Bible study not some message from God:[1]

With regard to 1874:  It should be noted that ‘The Watchtower’ was not published until 1879 and Russell himself did not become aware of the 1874 date until 1876!  So it was hardly a matter of a failed prediction. 

With regard to 1914: :  "We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises . . . We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them" (emphasis added).[2]

With regard to 1925: "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of CHRIST will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year."[3]

With regard to 1975: ‘What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?’ asked Brother Franz. ‘Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.[4]

It’s obvious, therefore, that the situation was by no means as clear-cut as Watchtower opposers would have us believe.  By omitting these more cautionary statements, many of which are in the same articles as the quotations they like to print, enemies of Jehovah’s Witnesses give a misleading picture of events and endeavour to make a suggested interpretation look like a prophecy.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 09:05:19 AM by The Sanctuary »
"Jeova Sanctus Unus"

"Jeova tu Solus Altissimus in Omni Terra"

"Veritas Liberabit Vos"
 


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