Baptisan Api ??

Tidak apa-apa, curhatnya masih sesuai dengan konteks pembahasannya; anggaplah sebagai contoh kecil dalam terapan.

Entahlah yah…

Kok gue ga stuju ya kalo baptisan api itu adl utk pemurnian?

Coba deh liat pola baptisan.
Baptisan air = tjadi cuma skali
Baptisan Roh = tjadi cuma skali
Baptisan Api?
Sharusnya cuma skali donk???
Tul ga seh?

Kl pemurnian kan terjadi scr kontinu.
Hari demi hari lewat ujian dan pcobaan.

Yg Paulus tulis juga dibakar dg api hanya 1 kali kan?
Yaitu saat ujian dr hasil pkerjaan tiap2 org.

1 Kor 3:13
sekali kelak pekerjaan masing-masing orang akan nampak. Karena hari Tuhan akan menyatakannya, sebab ia akan nampak dengan api dan bagaimana pekerjaan masing-masing orang akan diuji oleh api itu.

Skali doang bukan?

Ya udah lanjut dah…
Cuma selingan iseng ajah.

bro siip…
menurut aku juga gitu, tapi ga tau yah.
jelasnya si tanya YBS aja.
mungkin ini kaitannya dengan penghakiman tahta putih?! (kalo ga salah tangkap)

Trimakasih atas pencerahan yang didapat.mudah2an itu membawa kita semakin RENDAH HATI…
Praise The LORD

itu makanya dalam baptisan perlu dipahami…

dibaptis dengan
dibaptis dalam

nah karena ini baptisan berkaitan dengan Roh Kudus… maka mestinya ini bicara soal cara Yesus…

katanya cuma nonton doang?

lanjutkan bro.

ya intinya…

Bila dalam Alkitab bicara dibaptis dalam umumnya akan menyangkut NAMA TUHAN (aku singkat supaya ga susah), artinya obyek yang menerima tindakan dimasukkan sebagai keluarganya Tuhan…

Sementara bila dikatakan dibaptis dengan maka itu menunjukkan sarana… air, api… dlll

gitu mungkin tambahannya untuk sekarang…

Kadang org lg nonton jg bisa bersorak Bro…
Apalagi pas cetak gol.



Good apanya bro?

??? ??? [Matius] 3:11 Stephens Textus Receptus (1550) - Transliterated
eg? men baptiz? umas en udati eis metanoian o de opis? mou erchomenos ischuroteros mou estin ou ouk eimi ikanos ta upod?mata bastasai autos umas baptisei en pneumati agi? kai puri

Anak kalimat {Yohanes} eg? men baptiz? umas en udati tentunya pararel atau sejajar dengan anak kalimat {Yesus} baptisei en pneumati agi? kai puri

Kedua anak kalimat memakai kata en

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.

en bisa bermakna dengan bisa juga bermakna dalam

Namun tentu saja - mnurut saya - pemilihan kata dengan dengan dalam haruslah paralel.

Bila Yohanes membaptis dengan


Yesus pun membaptis dengan

Bila Yohanes membaptis dalam


Yesus pun membaptis dalam

Perbedaan antara Yohanes [manusia] denganm Yesus [Tuhan] adalah perkara media baptisan saja.

Bandingkan dengan Mat 28:19

??? ??? 28:19 Scrivener’s Textus Receptus (1894) - Transliterated
poreuthentes oun math?teusate panta ta ethn? baptizontes autous eis to onoma tou patros kai tou uiou kai tou agiou pneumatos

Disini yang membaptis adalah manusia, karena yang memerintahkan baptis ini adalah Tuhan

A primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases.: - [abundant-] ly, against, among, as, at, [back-] ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for [intent, purpose], fore, + forth, in (among, at unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-) on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore (-unto), throughout, till, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-) until (-to), . . . ward, [where-] fore, with. Often used in composition with the same general import, but only with verbs (etc.) expressing motion (literally or figuratively.

bila en adalah dengan atau dalam, maka eis adalah kedalam

Maka tindakan baptis dalam Matius 28:19 bila dikaitkan dengan Matius 3:11 {editted , salah cetak sebelumnya :cheesy:} diatas, pilihanya adalah :

  1. dengan/dalam
  2. media

a. air
b. Roh Kudus & Api


Sorry di sini susah ngopy Nestle Aland-nya…

Ini dari WBC

11 Although Matthew, unlike Mark, does not directly conjoin the two parallel clauses ejgw; me;n uJma" baptivzw, “I baptize you,” and aujto;" uJma" baptivsei, “he will baptize you,” inserting between them the parenthetical statement of John’s unworthiness compared with the mightier one who is to follow him, the contrast is still very apparent. John describes his own baptism as eij" metavnoian, by which is not meant that repentance is the goal or result of baptism (as “to repentance” might be taken), since the baptism itself presupposes the existence of repentance. Hence, eij" metavnoian is best understood as “with reference to,” “associated with,” or “in agreement with” (for this meaning of eij", see BAGD., s.v. eij", 5; p. 230a). This phrase, only in Matthew, heightens the contrast between John and Jesus. The stress on repentance reminds the reader of the preparatory function of John; although there is no counterpart to this phrase in the clause describing Jesus’ baptism, it is clear that his baptism is rather one of fulfillment having to do with the inauguration of the kingdom. oJ de; ojpivsw mou ejrcovmeno", “the one coming after me,” is probably also an allusion to “the coming one,” i.e., pointing to a technical term for the Messiah (cf. 11:3; 21:9; 23:39; cf. Heb 10:37, and for OT background, Ps 118:26). No further identification is needed; the forerunner precedes the one who will bring the kingdom. (Cf. the exact parallel in John 1:27.) While the Baptist expects a triumphant Messiah, it is probably going too far to conclude that he regards the coming one as none other than Yahweh (as Hughes claims). The words that immediately follow are only appropriate to a human agent such as the Messiah. Common to the three Synoptics, the phrase ijscurovterov" mou, “stronger than me,” is probably to be associated with the powerful impact of the kingdom that the Messiah brings. The noun form of this same root is applied to the Messiah, the Son of David, in Pss. Sol. 17:37. While Mark, followed by Luke, has John express his unworthiness by referring to the loosening of the strap of the sandals, Matthew puts it in terms of ta; uJpodhvmata bastavsai, “to bear his sandals” (MM and BAGD, however, state that bastavsai here means “to take off”; s.v.). This is possibly Matthew’s heightening of the contrast between John and Jesus, although both metaphors describe a slave-master relationship. In aujto;" uJma`" baptivsei, “he himself will baptize you,” the aujtov" is intensive and contrasting. John draws the contrast by describing the work of the one to come as also a baptism, though metaphorical rather than literal. There is thus continuity and discontinuity between John and Jesus.
Jesus will baptize ejn pneuvmati aJgivw/ kai; puriv, “with the Holy Spirit and fire.” Were the words kai; puriv known to Mark and deliberately omitted (Mark lacks any reference to John’s message of the coming wrath), or are they a secondary addition in Q? Related to this question is the actual meaning of the words.

That is, are the words kai; puriv (1) further describing ejn pneuvmati ajgivw/, and hence epexegetical, or (2) do they refer to a different aspect of the baptism altogether? (1) If pneuvmati and puriv refer to the same thing, they may both describe either judgment or blessing. (a) The majority of scholars accept that John preached only a message of judgment and that therefore pneuvmati aJgivw/ is to be understood as a destroying wind that works together with the fire. (C. K. Barrett [The Holy Spirit in the Gospel Tradition (London: SPCK, 1970) 126] suggests that the wind that blows away the chaff is in view; cf. v 12.) Thus John’s message is regarded as consistently pessimistic and in full agreement with the urgency of his call to repentance. (b) Some (e.g., Lagrange) have followed Chrysostom, on the other hand, in seeing the statement as referring only to the blessing experienced in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. In this view, the words kai; puriv refer to the tongues of fire that symbolized the Holy Spirit in that event (cf. Acts 2:3). A major difficulty with this interpretation of the reference to fire is that in the following verse (cf. v 10) fire is so forcefully a metaphor of judgment (for its background, see Scobie, 68–69). (2) Many (e.g., Lohmeyer, Schmid, Filson, Luz) have therefore followed Origen in seeing this sentence as referring to a twofold baptism—that is, blessing for the righteous (ejn pneuvmati aJgivw/) and judgment for the wicked (kai; puriv). What may be regarded as a proper refinement of this view (Beasley-Murray, Baptism; Hill; Dunn) insists that there is but one baptism (the two nouns are governed by one preposition, ejn, and the uJma`" allows no distinctions), which is experienced either as judgment or blessing (cf. v 12). The blessing, on this interpretation, is more indirect, being experienced as a kind of refinement or purging (Davies-Allison; Carson); this process, however, is concomitant with the arrival of the kingdom and thus is positive in the final analysis. Beasley-Murray refers to Isa 4:2–5 as an analogous passage. Further OT passages may be mentioned (Isa 44:3; Ezek 36:25–27; 39:29; Joel 2:28), and Hill calls attention to a remarkable parallel in 1QS 4:20–21. There is no reason why John may not have contemplated the positive effects of the coming of the Promised One, as well as the negative effects that are so prominent in his urgent call to repentance. The latter, to be sure, seem to have dominated his thinking (according to Matthew and Luke, not Mark). But later in Matthew’s narrative, Jesus’ response to John’s question, asked through his disciples, suggests that John was expected also to have thought of the positive consequences of the arrival of fulfillment (11:4–5). Those who responded to his message in repentance and baptism were surely to experience the baptism of Jesus finally as blessing, and that mediated by the Spirit he was to bestow (cf. 10:20; 28:19). See the excursus in R. A. Guelich, Mark 1–8:26, WBC 34A (Dallas: Word, 1989) 27–28.

Hagner, Donald A., Word Biblical Commentary, Volume 33a: Matthew 1-13, (Dallas, Texas: Word Books, Publisher) 1998.

Sepertinya tidak sinkron dengan penjelasan sebelumnya ya?

yang ditanya khan Mat 3.11 akan sulit menggunakan sintax dihubungkan dengan Mat 3.16

Kalau dari Mat 3.11 bisa ke Mat 28.19… akan muncul en dan eis… tp kalo dari Mat 3.16 sepertinya susah…

Karena itu IMO

Dengan - media Cf. Dalam - hasil tindakan…


qqqqq salah cetak broer :D, jadi ya harap maklum klo ndak bisa disambung

ngopynya apa pastenya broer?

klo paste rasane bung adi [owner] hrs update engine atao apa gitulah, biar bisa support font greek n hebrew

kalo ngopy, ya source nya memang masih copyrighted, tapi versi gelapnya banyak beredar :smiley:

Bagusnya, semua referensi berbahasa inggris diterjemahkan dulu, supaya semuanya bisa mengerti.

Stuju banget.
Krn kalo ngga,
Gue biasanya cuman baca bbrp baris trakhir dg harapan bahwa itu adl ksimpulan…

Jadi bro Satya, harap terjemahkan dong. :afro:

ya… apalagi yang puuaaanjaaanggg kaya postingan pak satya itu

ngopinya bisa pastenya ga bisa

Terimakasih masukkannya…
nanti setelah waktu saya bisa saya atur kembali dengan baik saya akan usahakan untuk terjemahkan.

thx masukannya…