Siapakah Pencipta Tuhan ?

agar mudah memperjelaskannya, bagi yg bisa bahasa Inggris mohon diterjemahin donk (tanpa bantuan Google Translate) :afro:

dr sini: If God Created Everything, Who Created God?

If God Created Everything, Who Created God? by Rich Deem Introduction How did God get here?

Richard Dawkins, among other atheists, thinks he has the ultimate proof that God doesn’t exist. If God created a complex universe, wouldn’t it take an even more complex entity to have created God? However, such logic assumes that time has always existed, rather than being merely a construct of this universe.

Rich Deem

Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God (Elohim) to whom we are accountable had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is how did the first god get here? This problem of infinite regression invalidates such religions. Christianity claims that God has always existed. Is this idea even possible? Does science address such issues?

Christianity’s answer

Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:

No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)

This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)

The hope of eternal life, which God… promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)

To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)

7 Truths that Changed the World: Discovering Christianity’s Most Dangerous IdeasThe idea that God created time, along with the physical universe, is not just some wacky modern Christian interpretation of the Bible. Justin Martyr, a second century Christian apologist, in his Hortatory Address to the Greeks, said that Plato got the idea that time was created along with the universe from Moses:

"And from what source did Plato draw the information that time was created along with the heavens? For he wrote thus: ‘Time, accordingly, was created along with the heavens; in order that, coming into being together, they might also be together dissolved, if ever their dissolution should take place.’ Had he not learned this from the divine history of Moses?"1



God exists in timeless eternity

How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God’s creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.Beyond the Cosmos: What Recent Discoveries in Astrophysics Reveal about the Glory and Love of God

God exists in multiple dimensions of time

The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time’s arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.
Why can’t the universe be eternal?

The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn’t need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical “science” that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger “multiverse” that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute “god” for atheists. And, since this “god” is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam’s razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.Without a Doubt: Answering the 20 Toughest Faith Questions
What does science say about time?

When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible’s claim that time began at the creation of the universe.
Conclusion Top of page

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God’s plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

mohon kesukarelaannya utk membantu sesama :slight_smile:

Yang paling bagus menterjemahin sih bro Jackson.

Pencipta tidak perlu dicipta karena Dia sudah ada sejak kekal sebelum ada waktu,dan Dia ada pada dirinya sendiri (Self Existence) bukan diadakan oleh kuasa external (diluar dirinya) baru ada.

Keberadaan Allah adalah diluar ruang dan waktu karena Dia bersifat transenden terhadap ciptaan atau alam semesta berikut semua isinya.

Penciptaan terjadi karena ada waktu yang berjalan dari sebelum dicipta menjadi sudah tercipta,dpl ada suatu proses perubahan didalam perjalanan waktu.

“Hukum Causalitas” hanya berlaku bagi ciptaan tetapi tidak bagi Sang Pencipta itu sendiri,karena Dialah yang menciptakan Hukum Causalitas tersebut.

Oleh karena itu Kitab Suci berkata :

Yoh.1:3 Segala sesuatu dijadikan oleh Dia dan tanpa Dia tidak ada suatu pun yang telah jadi dari segala yang telah dijadikan.

Yang saya bold merah itu membuktikan bahwa yang menjadikan itu tidak pernah merupakan bagian dari sesuatu yang pernah dijadikan.


tunggu bro jackson ahhh… ^^

Ada Tuhan dan ada tuhan ciptaan manusia.

Kekecewaan, kebuntuan, hipotesa dan penolakan adalah awal lahirnya tuhan ciptaan manusia sampai tidak adanya Tuhan.

Tuhan bukan beras murah bagi semua orang… jadi siapa yang peduli dengan mereka.


Alam semesta ini tercipta karna adanya Pencipta , didalam kehidupan ini ada yang namanya Hukum , Allah itu Hukum , dan Allah pun tunduk terhadap Hukum yang dibuatNya , Sang Pencipta ini tidak Tercipta karna ada suatu Hukum didalamnya yaitu Kekekalan sampai kekekalan .

jawabannya Tidak ada .

:angel: :angel:

Allah tidak selamanya harus tunduk kepada Hukum Alam yang dibuat-Nya sendiri karena Dia lebih besar dari Hukum Alam itu sendiri.

Setiap terjadi mujizat oleh Allah berarti Allah bekerja tidak melalui Hukum Alam yang ada,melainkan oleh kuasa-Nya yang tidak terbatas yang melampaui Hukum Alam.


Jadi slogan di atas langit ada langit, itu tidak unlimited ya ? :slight_smile:

wah sebenarnya judulnya harus dibenerin dulu tuh … Tuhan itu banyak bro, Tuhannya orang kristen, budha, hindu, muslim, atau yang lainnya bro … atau allahnya mesir, babilonia, Allah Israel, pokoknya banyak allah deh …
tapi Kalau TUHAN, Allah Israel tidak ada yang menciptakannya sedangkan untuk tuhan lainnya diciptakan berdasarkan bibir manusia yang mencari tuhannya sendiri… Dulu saya pernah mengecap rasanya jadi atheis dan saya mempertanyakan hal itu juga, karna segala sesuatu yang berasal dari TUHAN kadang sangat tidak masuk akal bagi atheis yang berpegang pada ilmu sains akan tetapi segala pertanyaan itu terjawabkan dengan adanya roh jahat, Kuntilanak yang pernah mengganggu saya tapi kemudian dengan kuasa anaknya saya mengusir kuasa jahat tersebut dengan berkata bila TUHAN, telah menentukan saya mati ditangan kamu hai kuasa jahat maka ambilah nyawaku akan tetapi bila tidak diberi kuasa maka pergilah engkau… dan kemudian dia pergi and never come back … jadi kalau roh jahat ada pasti ada roh kudus, roh kudus itu berasal dari TUHAN…
itulah yang bertentangan dengan sains… sebab sains berpikir secara logika … tetapi kuasa TUHAN diluar logika

Jadi tidak ada yang menciptakan TUHAN terutama Allah orang israel … Amin …

Kalau bicara mengenai langit tentu ‘limited’ karena itu hanyalah ciptaan belaka.

Hanya kalau berbicara mengenai keberadaan Tuhan saja yang ‘unlimited’.


Orang yang mengaku kristen pun ada yang menganggap dirinya tuhan didunia ini sehingga tidak mungkin bisa membuat kesalahan.


1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Co 8:6 tetapi bagi kita, ada satu Tuhan, yaitu Bapa, dari pada-Nyalah segala sesuatu, dan kita ada bagi Dia; dan satu Tuan, yaitu YESUS Kristus, melalui-Nyalah segala sesuatu, dan kita ada melalui Dia.

Jangan coba-coba menganalisa dengan otak kita sebesar bakpau ini, dan bertanya siapa yang menciptakan Tuhan, sedangkan gambar Tuhan sendiri kita belum bisa membayangkan.

Kemudian dilanjutkan lagi pertanyaannya, siapa yang menciptakan pencipta Tuhan itu ??

Kalau mau tahu, gampang saja; mati dulu.
Nanti kalau sudah menjadi malaikat terang atau malaikat gelap, baru lebih mudah mencari jawabannya.

Nah ya para orang pinter itu aja uda percaya kalau semuanya dimulai dari suatu awal, dari satu titik, memiliki sebab(non eternal). Entah apa itu, tidak terbayang, tidak tertara, disebut lah Tuhan, Sang Alfa. Sekarang dirimu tanya siapa pencipta Tuhan. Loh ya gimana, kalau ada lagi penciptanya, kalau ada lagi yang lebih awal, namanya bukan Tuhan dong… :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

Jadi pertanyaannya itu bukan siapa pencipta Tuhan, tapi apakah kamu percaya jika seluruh semesta dimulai dari satu titik, diakibatkan suatu Awal ?
Kalau jawabannya percaya, well, that Beginning has a name. For thousands of years, men call that, God. :smiley:





namanya juga pembelajaran brooo… biar pada tahu salahnya dimana… sooo… lom ada yang berani menterjemahkan kahhh…??? ^^

[quote author=alamak link=topic=45639.msg763683#msg763683 date=1348464224]
Orang yang mengaku Kristen pun ada yang menganggap dirinya tuhan didunia ini sehingga tidak mungkin bisa membuat kesalahan.


[Betul 100% … itu untuk penggenapan nubuat bro… tetapi sekali saya berkata bahwa TUHAN, Allah israel yang mengutus Yesus bagi kita dan menguatkan kita dengan Roh Kudus, tidak ada yang menciptakan Nya …]

eeeihh…eeiihhhh…jangankan menjadi bangga dng kemegahan iman mu broo…?? belajar itu ada yang berfaedah kata Rasul Paulus…

Tapi…perlu jugalah yang saya bilang…jangan menuntun ke jurang…Mending menhindar saja…toh jika pengetahuan Alkitab yang benar ada pada diri masing masing orang percaya…pasti ajaran si winfrey…mengenai NEW AGE MOVEMENT…harus kita buang jauh jauh…!!!

Ada yang beralasan…ohh…sebagai penambahan pengetahuan…yeehhh…kenapa ga nambah pengetahuan Alkitab yang bener aja ahh…!! cape dehhhh…

Kira-kira begitu maksud saya [email protected] imbagi…!!


Sebelum saya jawab, kamu harus jawab dolo yang ini…“Bagaimana bau warna abu²”? ;D

lahhh… kok jadi salah pengertian yahhh… bukankah harus diberitahu sehingga anda yang sudah mengetahui bisa mengajarkan bahwa hati2 jika ada ajaran yang kayak begitu…??? salahnya dimana dan bagian2 yang merusaknya yang mana yang bisa membuat iman kita dilemahkan… sehingga kemudian hari kita lebih kuat untuk menghadapi hal2 seperti ini…

atau kayaknya bro SHIPIROZ PURBA pelit yah ga mau ngasih tahu… *yang ini becanda brooo ^^